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‘It’s been quite searing’: John Tory on being Toronto’s pandemic mayor, Dr. Eileen de Villa — and whether he’ll run again

Nov 2, 2021 , , , , by shlf

John Tory is entering the back half of his second term as Toronto mayor consumed with an enemy that didn’t even exist one year ago.

We talked to him about how has changed his job and if seeking a third term is a possibility.

How has the pandemic changed what you do day-to-day as mayor?

Tory: I’m doing a lot of events virtually, which is a very big difference. But it’s actually proven to be quite useful as a means of being more open to people. If you are disabled, or a senior person or whatever, and you had access to the internet, you can be part of these public meetings. I’ve done town halls, I’ve done statutorily required public meetings, for developments and for different things.

You’re known for a long work day. Has the pandemic made it longer?

Tory: The emergency response has given me extensive additional responsibilities and extra dealings with other governments — I did so on routine things but now also on emergency stuff. So being mayor has really become two jobs. I say that without complaint. It’s just more difficult to do two jobs, whereas you were doing one before. The pressure of the second job — in context of the immediacy of decisions the consequences of them for people — it’s not lost on you when you’re sitting trying to make those decisions.

Decisions you make with Dr. Eileen de Villa, the city’s public health chief, literally spell life and death for people.

Tory: Back in March on a Saturday morning about six of us got a presentation from Dr. de Villa on projections for (COVID-19) and there was the case, if we did nothing how many would die, and I think the median number was 8,000 people in the city of Toronto, between then and the end of the year, and it ranged up as high as 10,000. If somebody told you that many people were going to die in Toronto, short of an explosion of some kind or a terrible earthquake — I was just stumped … When I wake up, the first news I hear is at 5 a.m. and when I hear about a tragic death from COVID-19 or anything else, you take it very personally, not that you could have stopped it, but you do think ‘If only we’d done this, or done that.’ You really don’t want anyone to come to any bad results in the city. So it’s been quite searing in that respect, as I think it would be for any human being.

Normally you are making decisions with other politicians. What is your decision-making process with de Villa?

We’ve operated very much in a collegial way. I think you’ve seen that I’ve been on the same page as her pretty much every day. There are some times we work to get to that place, just because I might have a different going-in opinion, just based on what I think is best for the city or what I think the public would accept. We’ve worked extremely well to come to what I think is the right place. She relies on me, to some extent, I think it’s fair to say, to help deal with other governments while she deals with her counterparts.

Hopefully, the pandemic will be behind us as you near the end of your second term in 2022. Are you more likely now than a year ago to seek a third term?

I haven’t had time to think about it. I think you have to ask yourself that question first — above anything else — what do you want to do with your own life? The second question is, ‘What about your family?’ The third thing is ‘Is it going to be in the best interest of the city for you to try to stay?’ I am nowhere near ready to retire — the structure of work for me is something that I value — the challenge — and I still have a huge desire to give back. I have nothing much left to prove to myself. If anything, it’s that I’d like to be a better husband, father and grandfather than I’ve been able to do in this job.

Many people say your wife Barb Hackett will be the deciding factor, her opinion and the state of her autoimmune nerve disorder.

Tory: Luckily, her health now is great. But her views will count for everything. We’re both the same age (66). So you ask yourself ‘Well, how do you want to spend your years?’ Because (being mayor) is a four-year term. But we have not had that discussion — it just isn’t time yet.

This interview was edited for brevity and clarity.

David Rider is the Star’s City Hall bureau chief and a reporter covering city hall and municipal politics. Follow him on Twitter:

dnfyu cproc

Self-employed CERB recipients ‘shocked’ by CRA letters saying they may have to pay it all back: ‘I don’t know how people are going to survive’

Sep 28, 2021 , , , , by shlf

A round of letters from the Canada Revenue Agency has self-employed Canadians who received the Canada Emergency Response Benefit (CERB) worried they may have to pay back the thousands of dollars they say kept them afloat during the pandemic’s early months.

The letters, which the CRA said were sent to CERB recipients for whom the agency can’t confirm eligibility for the benefit, say that self-employed recipients needed $5,000 in net employment income — income after expenses — to qualify, either in 2019 or in the 12 months leading up to the date of their application.

However, some self-employed CERB recipients say the CERB application and eligibility criteria did not mention net income, and believed that their gross income qualified them for the benefit.

Pan Dong, a self-employed paralegal in Toronto, is one of them.

His income before expenses — in other words, his gross income — was well above $5,000 when he applied for CERB, he said.

But thanks to the expenses of owning a business, especially during a pandemic, his net income was below $5,000. However, at no time during the application process was he made aware that his eligibility was based on his net income, Dong said.

Now, it seems he may have to pay back the $14,000 in federal funding he received.

“For a lot of people, it’s not a small amount of money,” Dong said.

He’s not alone.

Tracey Crosson is the admin for Facebook group “Canada CERB / EI / CRB Unofficial Support Group,” which is run by non-profit Ubi Works. She said the group has hundreds of members who are self-employed and in the same situation as Dong: they made more than $5,000 in gross income, but less than $5,000 in net income.

They, too, received the letter from the CRA saying they may not be eligible for the benefit, and may be required to pay back the money.

“I don’t know how people are going to survive,” Crosson said.

The CRA said the eligibility criteria have not changed since CERB began.

“The CRA considers self-employment income as the net pre-tax income (gross income less expenses). This is consistent with how self-employment income is calculated when dealing with the CRA. To be clear, there has been no change to this position during the life cycle of the CERB.

“This requirement was publicized on Canada.ca since the beginning, specifically under the category ‘Self-Employed and Independent Workers’ on the question and answers page,” a CRA spokesperson said in an email. (The Star has verified this. However, under the “eligibility” and “income requirements” categories on the same , it mentions self-employment income but does not specify gross versus net income.)

The spokesperson also clarified that receiving the letter does not necessarily mean a person has to pay back the CERB money.

“Individuals who have received this letter should not interpret it as a determination that they have definitively been deemed ineligible for the CERB; what the letter means is that the CRA does not yet have the information needed to confirm that they are in fact eligible for the benefit,” the email said.

“The letter strongly encourages those individuals who have yet to file their 2019 returns to do so as soon as possible, as this is the simplest way to confirm their eligibility. We expect this will likely be the case for many of the individuals who receive this letter.”

Though the CRA is encouraging people to pay back any owed CERB money by the end of the year, the spokesperson said this is not mandatory, but rather encouraged “to ensure that there is no impact on the recipient’s 2020 income tax return.”

But people receiving these letters say the criteria for CERB wasn’t made clear enough to begin with.

That’s what Cory Perry said happened to his partner, Diane Duplessis.

Duplessis runs a private daycare out of the couple’s home that was shut down at the beginning of the pandemic. When she went to apply for CERB, Perry said, she assumed that the criteria on the website was referring to gross income. (The Perry referred to says, as of publication time, that to be eligible an applicant must earn $5,000 before taxes, but does not mention “net” or “gross.”)

The money helped the family keep their heads above water, Perry said. But now, it looks like Duplessis may have to repay the $14,000 she received.

If that’s the case, the couple may have to sell their home, Perry said.

David Murray, an accountant in Wilmot, Ont., said he’s heard from self-employed Canadians across the country, including several of his own clients, who are in the same situation. That’s why he started a to amend the criteria for these CERB applicants, alleging that the CRA added the “net” to the eligibility criteria later on (the CRA denies this claim).

Small-business owners have a lot of expenses that can lower their net employment income, Murray said, including tools, bills and the depreciation of assets like vehicles.

Many people have already spent their CERB money on rent or other bills, he added, and don’t have the means to pay it back.

Murray also pointed out that on the for the government’s new temporary Canada Recovery Benefit, the eligibility criteria specifically state that self-employed income is income minus expenses.

Vicki Hargreaves, the moderator for the Facebook group “I Lost My Gig Canada” and a lead advocate for an arts group in Kingston, Ont., said many self-employed artists are in this situation, too.

The CRA’s letter, for many, was the first time these applicants were hearing about the net income requirement, she said.

“That information wasn’t available.”

And it’s not just self-employed people who are receiving these letters.

Brandi Campbell applied for CERB after the pandemic forced the casino she worked at to shut down temporarily. She said she made more than $5,000 in gross employment income, and that none of the information on government web pages or in the application mentioned gross or net.

Campbell received the full CERB amount, $14,000, and then received a letter two weeks ago saying the CRA couldn’t confirm her eligibility. The letter includes “gross employment income” and “net self-employment income” as examples of a valid source of income for CERB eligibility.

“When I received the letter … I was absolutely shocked,” said Campbell, who said she did her taxes in early 2020 to make sure she could qualify for the benefit.

Now she’s worried she may have to pay it all back.

“We’re all wondering what the ramifications are going to be.”

Correction — Dec. 10, 2020: This article was edited to clarify that Brandi Campbell did her taxes in early 2020 to make sure she could qualify for the CERB.

Rosa Saba is a Toronto-based business reporter for the Star. Follow her on Twitter: